Multiply Your Success with Dr. Tom DuFore

276. Gain Freedom From Capital Gains Tax Using a Deferred Sales Trust—Brett Swarts, CEO, Capital Gains Tax Solutions

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What are your tax plans for when you exit your business? Do you have one? Our guest today is Brett Swarts, is a capital gains and exit tax planning expert. 

TODAY'S WIN-WIN:
Write down what matters the most.

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ABOUT OUR GUEST:
Brett Swarts is a best-selling author of "Building a Capital Gains Tax Exit Plan”. He is host of the Build it to Billions & Capital Gains Tax Solutions Podcasts. His insights have been featured at the Best Ever Real Estate Conference, DLP Capital Conference, American Entrepreneur with Kevin Harrington from Shark Tank, and also seen on Fox Business Network. As a real estate broker, his expertise is one of the few in the world who has closed Deferred Sales Trust, Delaware Statutory Trust, and 1031 Exchanges. He is the Founder of Capital Gains Tax Solutions where he teaches purpose-driven entrepreneurs and investors to build their capital gains tax exit plan to multiply their freedom, wealth, and impact. He has closed over ½ Billion in Deferred Sales Trust and Real Estate Transactions and he was the first to help Bitcoin owners exit millions of gains and defer their capital gains tax using a Deferred Sales Trust. 


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Tom DuFore:

Welcome to the Multiply your Success podcast, where each week, we help growth-minded entrepreneurs and franchise leaders take the next step in their expansion journey. I'm your host, tom Dufour, ceo of Big Sky Franchise Team, and as we open today, I'm wondering what are your tax plans for when you exit your business? Do you have one? Have you even thought about that? Or maybe you've exited and thought, oh boy, I exited in the past and tax obligations were so high it wasn't even worth it, or maybe you saw something like that.

Tom DuFore:

Well, our guest today is Brett Swartz, and he is a capital gains and exit tax planning expert. Now, brett is a bestselling author of Building a Capital Gains Tax Exit Plan. He's the host of the Build it to Billions and Capital Gains Tax Solutions podcasts. He's the founder of the Capital Gains Tax Solutions, where he teaches purpose-driven entrepreneurs and investors to build their capital gains tax exit plan to multiply their freedom, wealth and impact. He's closed over half a billion in deferred sales trust and real estate transactions, and he was the first to help Bitcoin owners exit millions of gains into further capital gains using a deferred sales trust. You're going to love this interview, so let's go ahead and jump right into it.

Brett Swarts:

Tom grateful to be here. Thank you for having me. Brett Swartz, founder and CEO of Capital Gains Tax Solutions.

Tom DuFore:

I love your business name because it says what you do and I really am looking forward to our conversation, to be talking about capital gains tax and to explain what it is, how it works and start getting into some of these complexities that I've seen business owners over the years go through transactions, sell business and have capital gains tax and not really know what they're doing or what they're getting into. So I'd love for you just to give an overview and a starting point for us.

Brett Swarts:

Absolutely Most purpose-driven entrepreneurs when they're building their businesses. That's what they're focused on. They spend 5, 10, 15, 20 years plus building it and then they have this massive exit. But they haven't been prepared or planned necessarily for the exit and sometimes they get caught with massive capital gains tax when they could have deferred it and compounded the wealth. And so we focus on that 20 to 50% of every sale that's going to be taxed and we build capital gains tax exit plans to continue the momentum right. The worst thing you can do as a business owner is stop that momentum. We love momentum and momentum continues with tax, either in a positive way, if you can defer it, or it goes negative if you have to pay it. And that's what we want to try to help business owners do and create passive wealth or go to the next business venture. It all just kind of depends on the customized plan, but ultimately that's what we do. We've built a capital gains tax exit plan help them defer the tax so they can multiply their freedom and impact.

Tom DuFore:

I think that sounds great, but I know, for me and probably a bunch of other folks out there, my initial thought is well, it's kind of the old adage right, death and taxes are two things that are certain, and so isn't it that when you sell your business or an asset like that, you just are stuck with these taxes? I mean, that's the mindset I think that I know I've had over the years, and probably someone tuning in might have. So help me better understand how that might work.

Brett Swarts:

Yeah, you have an IRA 401k. Maybe you've done a 1031 exchange. I have to use the analogy that if a tree falls in a forest and no one's around to hear to make it sound, you know it didn't make it sound. We can debate that. So the reality is the beauty of a compounding effect of you know what, the eighth wonder of the world. If you can defer taxes and let it compound for decades and pass it to your kids, let it compound, guess what? You're not paying taxes until you receive payment, okay. So that's a key point here. So think of our structure strategy is an interest-free loan for the government. So, tom, if the government said, hey, on your, on your next $10 million exit, you would have paid 4 million of tax, but we'll give you a zero interest loan on that 4 million and you can go invest it into other business ventures. It can go into real estate, you can put it in the stock market, put it into Bitcoin. In other words, you can invest it into these other investments or businesses and those businesses can grow and you can live off a cash flow. When would you want to pay that back? Well, I can tell you the answer to the question it's the second day to never right. You're going to want to defer that tax, compound that wealth, make a bigger impact, and that's the beauty of what the US government tax code has given to us. Using IRC 453, which we'll get into more, which doing an installment sale with a trust is the key can give you that flexibility and the ability to compound that wealth.

Brett Swarts:

And the reality is most of our clients really want this.

Brett Swarts:

They want truly passive income and we believe that truly passive income is to your freedom and impact, as compounding interest is to your money. In other words, a lot of people start at the business not only to build the wealth, make an impact, but also to have a retirement or have some additional ability to get revenue passively, eventually, if they can, either stepping away from the business, selling the business, and so we just do this in an all in one, all in one kind of exit. You know when they, when they go to exit and we let's say there's 10 million you have that you would have had six Now we invest, let's say we make eight or 9% net of net of, you know, fees on a recurring basis. You know it's an extra 800, just 800 to $900,000 of passive income versus if you only had $6 million, let's say, after a 40% tax. You can kind of do the math on that, and so that's really the focus here, and so most of our clients like to compound wealth versus paying the tax.

Tom DuFore:

I can't imagine any business owner or someone a founder that's at that stage coming in and saying, well, I would really prefer to make all those tax payments if I can defer that and help. Like you said, multiply that that would be certainly. We love that word here on Multiply your Success podcast. One of the things that it made me think about is for someone that's thinking of this, or maybe they're just thinking of it hearing this when should someone start this kind of planning? Is this something they start after the sale has begun, or when do you advise that?

Brett Swarts:

Yeah, once somebody start in a capital gains tax exit plan, what I would say you know, really, there's no, it's never too early, but it can be too late. Right, it's too late if you've already sold the business, or if the buyer has removed all contingencies, or if you don't have the language in the purchase and sale agreement or the APA, the SBA. We want to get it as early as better, and the neat part about working with us is we don't charge anything to do all the planning. I mean literally all the planning, the trust work, talking with your legal team, your CPA, getting everything in place. We do that purposely, because the IRS has a rule that when you have what's called constructive receipt, which basically means you're bound to sell it to the buyer, then it's too late and it's going to be a taxable event. And so in this situation we like to say be early.

Brett Swarts:

Yeah, where do most people find us? I would say six to 12 months beforehand. We have those that will find us sometimes 30 to 60 days, where they're under contract and we are moving at a faster pace to get to know, like and trust one another and make sure that we're a good fit. So the earlier the better for the planning. What?

Tom DuFore:

are some things maybe a founder, owner, president or CEO of a company should be starting to think about. What are the kinds of things that they might need to be collecting or having available to start discussing that with someone like you and your team?

Brett Swarts:

Great question. I think the number one mistake that a lot of entrepreneurs or business owners make is they don't get really clear on their perfect life metrics. They also don't get really clear on their family mission, vision values for their wealth. And so we always start with the macro and say, hey, what are your family mission, vision values, what is your wealth legacy, generational stewardship plan and how is your exit going to be a big part of that? Or how is maybe keeping the business and maybe not selling being a big part of that and figuring that out? And so, when they can get really clear on that, we wanna avoid the death, the divorce, the partnership separation, the things that cause sales, to force sales, and we really want them to be in a proactive state.

Brett Swarts:

As we were talking before the show a couple of years ago, there were probably a number of folks who wish they would have sold when the multipliers were higher, when debt was more readily available for buyers and capital was flowing a little more. They could have maybe exited a better multiplier. And that's what we want to do. We want to focus on what's the optimal timing. So what's optimal for you, Mr Seller, and your family, and how does that fit into this larger plan of the exit. And so the question we ask, and kind of the exercise that we can help anyone today, is write down what matters the most. And that last piece is really important because there's a lot of things that matter, Tom, Like, look, I want to defer my tax. Look, I want to be able to exit at a high price. Look, I want to be able to get me out of debt, be diversified, provide for my family, have asset protection, have diversification, have some liquidity. I mean, we can go down the laundry list, but if you say what matters the most to you, Mr Seller, during this season of the clients that we work with, what matters to them the most is number one truly passive income. How can they finally get to that fourth quadrant of the rich dad, poor dad, where their money is giving them time right Versus them trading their time for their money? And so we clear on the number 10, 20, 30, 40, 50,000 per month or somewhere around there. They probably have some passive income here or there that's trickling in, but it's not substantial enough for them to walk away from their business necessarily, unless they can sell their business to further tax and convert that into a truly passive income plan and again, we believe truly passive income is to your freedom and impact is compounding. Interest is to your money. And then we just build that plan. We look at the ROE return on equity that's currently valued at your business versus your current cash flow that's active, by the way and then we look at the ROT right, which is your return on time right.

Brett Swarts:

How much time, blood, sweat and tears are you pouring into it? Now, here's the reality. I'm an entrepreneur, Tom. You're an entrepreneur. We love and we're passionate about what we do, but at a certain point, are we ready to transition? Here's the beauty about our structured strategy you don't have to be passive. In fact, we have lots of young entrepreneurs that are looking for their next chapter and they use the trust as a funding source for their next vision or their next mountain to climb. And so you can be an entrepreneur. You can be passive, you can be retired, you can be active.

Brett Swarts:

It's not a one size fits all. In fact, I had a client, Warren and Catherine. They're real estate entrepreneurs. They own an apartment complex business in Sacramento, California, and they sold for about 2.5 million right at the peak. It was great. We deferred all their tax. Their NOI was about $120,000. We increased it to about $190,000. But the beauty is their ROT their return on time went through the roof because they no longer have to work on the property. And that's what leads into.

Brett Swarts:

The last one I'll leave here is ROI, which is not just a return on investment, it's your return on impact. And the beauty of this is they had two young daughters that were 10 years old and they wanted to maximize their time with the kids before they're 18. Did you know, Tom, that 85% of the time we spend with our kids is before they're 18? That's their whole lives. Our 85% as parents is before they're 18. So they wanted to maximize that. Well, guess what? What happens when the kids go off to college and get married and all that kind of thing? Well, guess what? They're probably going to be entrepreneurs again, and that's the beauty. You want a structure and a strategy that can flex with your life right Back and forth. So I'll pause there, but those are just some of the things that we help our clients through.

Tom DuFore:

I'd love for you to expand on this idea of selling five years earlier versus five years later.

Brett Swarts:

Yeah, let's break it down with this whole exercise. Let's say 10 million is your magic number, right? If you had 10 million, earning about 8%, it's about $800,000 a year. That's about, you know, 65,000 a month. Just to keep it simple, let's say that was your truly passive income number, and five years ago, you know. Let's say you're in New York, new Jersey, taxifornia, you're in these higher tax states. We'll use a number of about 35 to 40 percent of your gain.

Brett Swarts:

Well, five years ago you could have sold at 10 million, but the challenge was you go well, brett, I really need 10 million, net of taxes, net of closing costs, net of m&a advisor fees, all the different things, and that equals about 65 000 a month. So I need to wait a few more years in order to achieve that. I need to sell for about 15 million, just to keep it simple, to net about 10. So I'm going to continue to work really hard and increase my EBITDA and really, you know, you know, get all this thing dialed in. But thank you, mr MA advisor, for the evaluation at 10. I'll wait till 15. And so well, fast forward.

Brett Swarts:

The market has shifted right. Maybe values are no longer 10. Maybe now, values are now eight, maybe values are seven, maybe AI is now attacking your whole entire ecosystem and you're fastly bleeding in your EBITDA. And so it's now. You're not in optimal timing. In fact, the market a few years ago was optimal. Now here's the beauty if you had our structure, the beauty is you could have sold at 10 and the trust could have net at 10 and it could have invested and then now started to produce all of this passive cashflow, which is what you really wanted. Anyways. The 15 number was really just an arbitrary number in the sense that you didn't care about 15, you just cared about the net 10 to get you to the $65,000 a month. And so what we're talking about here is kind of the ROT again, the return on time. What if today you could sell, defer the tax? And now it's like a time machine All of a sudden. I don't have to wait another five years of my life. I don't have to wait for unoptimal timing. No one knew for sure what's going to happen with these interest rates, but here we are right. So you want to strike when the iron's hot and you want to have a team that helps you to be able to strike on the irons hot. Now here's the flip side too. The funds could have been into the trust. You could have diversified and then you could start investing and buying back into companies that have either had been devalued or dropped in value. You know, we call this going on the offense right. Once you get in a spot where you're debt-free, tax-deferred, diversified, the funds could literally sit in money market accounts S&P 500, real estate debt funds.

Brett Swarts:

We had one client actually sell a car wash business $13 million in San Diego. Deferred all their tax, their basis was about $4 million. Well, they invested a large chunk of it into Bitcoin. Guess what? Bitcoin was at $40,000 a coin at that point. Now it's close to over 120,000 a coin. You kind of do the math there. And they went into real estate debt funds. They went into some stocks and they've been waiting for this market to shift. And guess what? The real estate market has taken about three years to shift and now they're seeing land at a discount and they're gonna partner with the trust to be an entrepreneur again to go build car washes. And that's the point we want to give you, the entrepreneur, the leverage of timing of sale and the leverage of time to buy investments when it's on your terms, versus it being dictated by a big tax bill.

Tom DuFore:

It got me thinking about this, saying well, if I'm talking to clients and advising people that I'm working with, sometimes thinking about, well, maybe selling sooner rather than later provides you either the same or better opportunity, because I bump into this a lot with clients that think, oh, I need to wait.

Brett Swarts:

I know my valuation is, to your example, $10 million, but I got to wait until I'm at $15 or $20 so that I can get down to this point, but it might take another 10 years to get there 100%, and the one thing that we can never get back is time right, the time to spend the time with either our families or the next business venture, or whatever it might be making a big difference, making an impact. And so, yeah, that's why we exist to unlock capital, to multiply freedom and impact. And that capital, in fact, is about $100 trillion is the estimate over the next five to 15 years. That's gonna transfer mostly from the baby boomers who have built these big businesses, who are huge, you know, built these big franchises right and have multiple locations, and they're looking at this and maybe the son or the daughter is not ready to take over, or the employees are not ready to take over, and they're looking at ways to diversify, ways to exit and to build a legacy.

Brett Swarts:

Every single day, 10,000 baby boomers are turning 65 years old in the US alone and there's about 80 million in the US alone. And the total net worth in America, tom, is around 50%. It's tied to high-end primary homes, private equity, which is businesses, and commercial real estate, and those three asset classes represent 50% of the total net worth and they're going to be trading hands and they're going to be trading hands and shifting, and so we're in this battle. It's no longer just about cash flow, it's about tax flow, and you've got to have a mindset shift on this, otherwise what you've built will be crushed by 20% to 50% in tax, or worse, you won't sell at optimal timing and the market itself will drop another 20%. And now you're playing catch up and who knows, that's not a great place to be in when you're having to chase the market when you could have sold at a nice time.

Tom DuFore:

I think you summarized it very well it's not just cashflow, it's taxflow, and for someone now that has this tax flow thought in their mind, how can someone find out or connect with you? Get connected, learn a little bit more about what you're doing and how you might be able to help them?

Brett Swarts:

Yeah, thanks, tom. You can go to capitalgainstaxsolutionscom. You can schedule a no cost, no obligation time with myself, one of my team members, to see if you can be a good fit. You can apply for that.

Brett Swarts:

We also have a book called Building a Capital Gains Tax Exit Plan. We actually wrote it with Kevin Harrington from Shark Tank, which is pretty cool. He's in the book and also Tony Robbins, cpa, is in the book, and it's basically my journey from being a multifamily Marcus and Mila Chap broker helping people buy and sell investment real estate and not learning about it in time and really failing my clients because we didn't know about this strategy. And then the 2008 crash and fast forward, learning about it and then giving business owners like you know who's listening today and real estate owners and Bitcoin owners the opportunity to build a capital gains XX amount we have to say. Tom, spend five hours with us and we'll give you an extra 20 to 50% working for you. Also, we can eliminate estate tax, which is a powerful thing as well for those who have ultra high net worth above 30 million maybe 15 million single and we can eliminate that estate tax. So you just want to start planning today. Don't wait. Go to capitalgainstaxsolutionscom.

Tom DuFore:

Fantastic, and we'll make sure we include that in the show notes and make it easy for folks to connect with you and learn here about what you're doing. Well, brett, this is a great time in the show. We ask every guest the same four questions before they go, and the first question we ask is have you had a miss or two on your journey and something you learned from it?

Brett Swarts:

Absolutely so I'm newly married. This is back kind of the 2008 crash. Maybe your listeners can relate Financially, flat on my back broke, we actually ran out of money. I'll never forget a lot of the friends and some of the family was saying, maybe go get a real job at like a bank. But I was an entrepreneur with a dream in my heart to be in real estate and commercial real estate. It's 100% commission, no salary, no benefits. You're making these cold calls, think about like boiler room to help people buy and sell real estate right. That's where I was a broker in real estate, investment real estate. Yeah, I wasn't making it and I was newly married, baby on the way.

Brett Swarts:

It was really tough financially. So I did what every real estate entrepreneur or real entrepreneur does you get a side hustle, and my side hustle was Cheesecake Factory, right, and so I was selling avocado egg rolls by night and nights and weekends and by day I started working at Marcus and Millichap to try to keep the dream alive. So I was working these two 60, 70 hour weeks. Then I started adding on AAU basketball tournaments. So I was kind of the bouncer I'd take the cash, put the wristband on. Then I added a hot dog stand, with a smoothie stand and with selling all the stuff from Costco.

Brett Swarts:

I was running these little mini businesses, if you will, and trying to just keep the whole thing on, so we flat out ran out of money $5,000 I had to borrow from my dad and we moved into my brother to a small condo with our first baby daughter. That was also a humbling experience. I did that for a two year period of time, but guess what I you know it actually solidified the tenacity and the grit and the resilience and what was really valuable for my wife and I for our future, and so I always, always shared that story. That was a huge miss, huge challenge, but it obviously helped to create the grit needed to be an entrepreneur.

Tom DuFore:

So I also really see it as a make as well. Oh, fantastic, thanks for sharing that story. Wow, let's talk about a make or two, or a highlight you'd like to share.

Brett Swarts:

Yeah, I would say the biggest thing would be going national right and stopping playing so small, meaning just locate all this, really the kind of the profit who wasn't accepting his hometown. I would cold call people and tell them about this tax deferral strategy and they were like, who are you? You're just a real estate broker. Who are you Like? You're not a CPA, like I don't know. Call me when you close some deals, I don't know if this is going to work. Too good to be true, lose my number hang up on me.

Brett Swarts:

And then I just kept pressing through and I would get some meetings and some success. But it was very small and so it was when we went to the podcast actually YouTube and we went national with what we had and all of a sudden we have clients you know, across the country now, and so I would say the big, the big make, was the ability to jump onto other people's podcasts people who come on my show and to really spread the information that can change people's lives and focus on transformation. So I would say that was definitely the big make. And now we've closed, I think, over a half a billion dollars in real estate and deferred sales trust transactions and we've also done some Delaware statutory trust and we just have a big, amazing client base that are like family, so that would definitely be the biggest make.

Tom DuFore:

Let's talk about a multiplier. The name of the show is Multiply your Success. So have you used a multiplier to grow yourself, personally, professionally, or any of the businesses you've run?

Brett Swarts:

Back to the kind of the concept of, you know, truly passive income is to your freedom and impact is compounding interest of your money and the multiplying effect of that. So I would say the biggest thing personally that I did to multiply was jumping into a actually a men's Bible study when I was about 24 years old and it was different than the traditional Bible studies. It was more like discipleship, leadership and the Bible and it was the practical application. It was about 25 guys and I was the youngest one and there was attorneys, there was entrepreneurs, there was doctors, there was construction workers I mean anything you knew, name it like all across and I was this new guy and I had a chance to just be, you know, encouraged, prayed for, discipled, and I did this for about a 10 year period of time and this is where I really feel like growing up, my parents were divorced so my dad wasn't really around, didn't pay child support. It was tough. He was still a great entrepreneurial dad, taught me a lot how to work hard. I love my dad. We're good things. I love my dad, but he did some things that weren't so great right, and my mom, health challenges and all these everything. So finances and wealth are always kind of a car. You live with my grandma all these things Again, both worlds.

Brett Swarts:

And so I go to this men's Bible study. It was cool because I had a chance to. I played sports in college, basketball in college and high school football, all this stuff. But this is a chance to really dig in and I felt like I had almost like 20 mentors all at once all rooting for me, all encouraging me. This is before I was married and I feel like it was almost like an initiation from like being like more of a boy teenager into a man. So I would say that was a multiplier effect. Married now, 16 years, you know they helped me, encourage me to get married at that point. We have five children. That's definitely been a multiplier, yeah, and now now fast forward. It's a God's blessing every single day. I'm just so grateful for it.

Tom DuFore:

Wonderful. Well, the final question we ask every guest is what does success mean to you, Number?

Brett Swarts:

one is identifying your unique gift that's been given to you, I believe, by God, and using that gift and, in a sense, multiplying or maximizing the potential of that gift. So knowing the gift, believing in the gift and maximizing the potential of that gift. So, knowing the gift, believing in the gift and maximizing the potential of the gift. The next part of this success is impacting as many people's lives as you can with the gift for good right. And then you take all of that piece, those three pieces, and knowing and believing that there's a bigger purpose for each of our lives and that you know God's given this short time on earth to make this impact. To me that equals success. But if you don't know the gifts, if you're not maximizing the potential of the gifts, if you're not using it to maximize the amount of people you can impact and, lastly, if you're not believing that it's here for a higher purpose, I think it's very hard to find success. To me, that's success.

Tom DuFore:

Wonderful, brett. Thank you for sharing that and, as we bring this to a close, is there anything you're hoping to share or get across that you haven't had a chance to yet?

Brett Swarts:

Not that we haven't already talked about. I would just say, as an entrepreneur, you are the backbone of the economy, of the US economy, creating the jobs. I'm always grateful to be able to serve and be a part of the entrepreneurial world, right and community. And so for what, tom, you're doing, I'm just grateful for the opportunity to share and maybe be a big or small part in someone's journey on an exit or their entrepreneur journey to grow. So just grateful to be here.

Tom DuFore:

Brett, thank you so much for a fantastic interview and let's go ahead and jump into today's three key takeaways. Takeaway number one is when he said it's not just cash flow, it's also tax flow. I thought that was a fantastic summary of how to start thinking about tax and tax flow situations at the time of exit. Takeaway number two is that when Brett talked about it's never too early to start a capital gains tax exit plan In fact, the sooner the better. If you're thinking about selling in five years or 10 years and that is on the horizon start thinking about it. And I thought it was interesting Brett said he doesn't charge his clients or prospective clients for the planning that he helps them with.

Tom DuFore:

Takeaway number three is when Brett talked about, as an owner and the founder, that you need to get really clear on what your family mission, vision and values are post-exit, what is most important to you, and get very, very clear on that. And now it's time for today's win-win. So today's win-win comes from getting clear on what you want. And I really want to emphasize this point again when Brett said you have to get clear on what matters the most, and I put the most in big, full capitalized letters to say you have to get clear on that. What matters the most? And I put the most in big, full capitalized letters to say you have to get clear on that, what matters the most right now, so that you know where to spend your passive time, passive income what are you doing this for? So that you can look at your return on time and you can look at your return on equity and you can look at your return on impact.

Tom DuFore:

Once you are clear on what matters the most, it is going to help you better understand what kind of income you actually need, how to structure it, where you're going to spend that time, money and resources, so that you can serve and support those things that matter the most to you. And so that's the episode today. Folks, Please make sure you subscribe to the podcast and give us a review. And remember if you or anyone you know might be ready to franchise their business or take their franchise company to the next level, please connect with us at bigskyfranchiseteamcom where you can schedule your free, no obligation consultation. Thanks for tuning in and we look forward to having you back next week.

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